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--- articles:qms_vs_iso9001_cert_mgmnt_system [2023/05/15 10:12] – [But our customers demand we hold a QMS Certification...] rrandall
+++ articles:qms_vs_iso9001_cert_mgmnt_system [2023/12/08 08:09] (current) – [But our customers demand we hold a QMS Certification...] rrandall
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-====== How a QMS is different from a "Certified Management System"? ======
+====== How a QMS is different from a "Certified Management System" ======
-EVERY company in a free market economy has a QMS (Quality Management System). Whether formal or informal and regardless of the degree to which it is documented, it exists because management views it as adding value. This QMS likely existed prior to the company ever becoming aware of ISO 9001. We know this because if the company didn’t have any sort of QMS, customers would take their business to competitors and it would (eventually) cease to exist! I'll refer to this QMS as the "__actual__" QMS.
+EVERY company in a free market economy has a QMS (Quality Management System). Whether formal or informal and regardless of the degree to which it is documented, it exists because management views it as adding value. This QMS likely existed prior to the company ever becoming aware of ISO 9001 (or AS9100). We know this because if the company didn’t have any sort of QMS, customers would take their business to competitors and it would (eventually) cease to exist! I'll refer to this QMS as the "__actual__" QMS.
 A "Certification Management System" (usually maintained by one or two key people) is developed, implemented, and maintained for the sole purpose of obtaining and retaining QMS Certification from an accredited Certification Body (CB). The value in obtaining a QMS Certification is to:
@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
   * Market to customers who perceive value in the "QMS Certification".
-While there is a significant overlap between these two systems, the "actual" QMS operates independently of any "QMS Certification" status.
+While these two systems overlap, the "actual" QMS operates independently of any "QMS Certification" status. The primary difference between these systems is that the "__actual__" QMS is "Customer Focused" while the "Quality Certification Management System" is "Auditor Focused".
+{{ :articles:qms_vs_qcms_venn_diagram-transp.png?direct&400|}}
 Here are some indicators that this dual system is in place:
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 Whether ISO 9001, AS91xx, or any other QMS Standard improves your "actual" QMS depends on the level of maturity and sophistication of your "actual" QMS. Remember, ISO 9001 is an "entry-level" QMS Standard intended to improve companies with an extremely basic, immature QMS producing poor or inconsistent results.
-Companies with very mature and sophisticated quality management systems (e.g., using Lean Six Sigma & TRIZ) would not benefit at all from implementing ISO 9001 or AS9100. In fact, ISO 9001, AS9100, and many other QMS Standards actually promote some [[how_iso_perpetuates_flawed_concepts|flawed, antiquated concepts]]. Consequently, compliance with these standards //could// actually present a challenge for those companies with a more sophisticated QMS! This is why some major companies do not seek QMS Certification.
+Companies with very mature and sophisticated quality management systems (e.g., using Lean Six Sigma & TRIZ) would not benefit at all from implementing ISO 9001 or AS9100. In fact, ISO 9001, AS9100, and many other QMS Standards actually promote //some// [[how_iso_perpetuates_flawed_concepts|flawed, antiquated concepts]].
 ==== But our customers demand we hold a QMS Certification... ====
-When companies have a sophisticated QMS, and customers demand that they also hold a QMS Certification, this presents interesting challenges. For companies with mature, sophisticated Quality Management Systems, seeking QMS Certification "could" actually be detrimental to their finely tuned QMS. In fact, some Quality professionals have stated: "//A company can have an excellent QMS, or it can have a certified QMS, but it can't have both//". While this may be a binary oversimplification of the challenges that having both presents, it should highlight that there are indeed significant challenges to having both.
+When companies have a sophisticated QMS, and customers demand that they also hold a QMS Certification, this presents some interesting challenges. For example, the company must have personnel who are able to:
-The company must have personnel who are able to:
   - Effectively defend & justify its interpretation and application of the standard; and
   - Educate the external auditor(s) as to "how" the more modern tools satisfy the requirements of the standard.
@@ Line 45: / Line 44: @@
 === Auditor Competence ===
-Since ISO 9001:2015 is outdated (by decades), many of the ISO 9001 auditors still rely on outdated information for the purpose of interpreting the standard. While these ISO 9001 Auditors may have been extremely competent 30 or 40 years ago, they are often ill-equipped to interpret and apply the requirements of ISO 9001 to a company that has implemented more modern concepts... such as Lean Six Sigma. And the vast majority of these Auditors have never even heard of TRIZ.
+ISO 9001:2015 was designed to be both simple (entry-level) and generic. However, many of the ISO 9001 & AS91xx auditors still rely on outdated information to interpret the standard. While these ISO 9001 & AS91xx Auditors may have been extremely competent 30 or 40 years ago, they are often ill-equipped to interpret and apply the requirements of ISO 9001 & AS91xx to a company that has implemented more modern concepts... such as Lean Six Sigma. And the vast majority of these Auditors have never even heard of [[https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Root-Cause-Analysis-Thinking-dp-1883677114/dp/1883677114/|Apollo Root Causes Analysis]] or [[https://triz.org/|TRIZ]].
-Case-in-point, I heard one experienced Aerospace Auditor state: "//I don't care how much Lean Six Sigma a company has, it's not going to make them a better company.//" This is an appalling level of Auditor incompetence in the quality profession.
+Case-in-point, I heard one experienced Aerospace Auditor state: "//I don't care how much Lean Six Sigma a company has, it's not going to make them a better company.//" This is an appalling level of Auditor knowledge in current quality tools and techniques.
-I've witnessed multiple Auditors complain and even issue nonconformities simply because they did not understand the logic of how the company had interpreted and applied the standard. While these invalid nonconformities should be appealed, far too many companies lack the personnel with the knowledge, skills, and ability to submit a proper [[articles:how_to_appeal_nonconformance|appeal]] to the CB.
+I've witnessed multiple Auditors complain, and even issue nonconformities, simply because they did not understand the logic of how the company had interpreted and applied the standard. While these invalid nonconformities should be appealed, far too many companies lack personnel with the knowledge, skills, and ability to submit a proper [[articles:how_to_appeal_nonconformance|appeal]] to the CB.
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